| covering old retaining walls |
| 02-04-2008 12:01:15 |
Member
Posts: 33
Joined: 10-24-2007
|
I often get asked to apply an overlay to old railroad tie retaining walls. So far I have told the owners that I could do this but would NOT offer any guarantee/warranty on the product or my application of the product and it would also be expensive if I was to do this.
So far I haven't even taken the time to bid these jobs but was wondering if others get these kind of requests and how you handle them. Run away or is there a way to do them successfully?
|
|
|
| 02-04-2008 15:48:46 |
Member
Posts: 52
Joined: --
|
Good call. You can't warranty.
Without x-ray vision or expensive tests who knows what is behind the wall? Movement? Drainage? Etc., Etc.
If you can't warranty it, don't do it.
|
|
|
|
| 02-04-2008 16:11:27 |
Member
Posts: 28
Joined: 11-20-2006
|
I would never go over wood outside. To much movement.
tajmawall.com
|
|
|
|
| 02-04-2008 19:03:00 |
Member
Posts: 33
Joined: 10-24-2007
|
Those were my thoughts. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't passing up some bucks, but definitely don't want to hose a customer either.
Thanks for your input.
|
|
|
|
| 02-05-2008 12:46:04 |
Member
Posts: 586
Joined: --
|
This is just an idea, in case the temptation becomes irresistible and you feel you must put a bid on this job. Wire lath and stucco brown coat, maybe double layer to stabilize the wall then maybe apply the overlay.
Comments?
Art
|
|
|
|
| 02-05-2008 15:51:40 |
Member
Posts: 1160
Joined: --
|
we've done wood that was completely encapsulated to protect from moisture/thermal expansion,,, it was a h/o install'd plywood over sleepers on conc patio w/clauses that's make any atty proud,,, we've also done conc, stucco, & icf's w/o any trouble,
along w/art, if you feel you just GOTTA HAVE this job, his method MIGHT work,,, we'd walk, tho.
best [the original] wannabe-atty-in-apprenticeship yic-yac
|
|
|
|
| 02-06-2008 06:15:22 |
Member
Posts: 91
Joined: 12-25-2007
|
Run away and quickly.............
|
|
|
|
| 02-06-2008 06:16:18 |
Member
Posts: 91
Joined: 12-25-2007
|
Run away and quickly.............
|
|
|
|
| 02-06-2008 16:44:04 |
Member
Posts: 28
Joined: 11-20-2006
|
The problem is, if moisture gets to the wood, it will swell up
and crack any cement based coating that you apply, lath or no lath.
|
|
|
|
| 02-13-2008 08:08:01 |
Member
Posts: 33
Joined: 10-24-2007
|
my thoughts were that unless I could find something that could seal the wood, moisture would work its way from behind and the applied product would come off. Whenever I get these requests I explain this and tell the prospect there are no guaranties, the conversation usually stops about this point.
|
|
|
|
| 03-07-2008 17:14:29 |
Member
Posts: 28
Joined: 03-07-2008
|
Take a class from JPJ Technologies and you can do it. The one that suggested lathe is on the right track. You can build faux rock panels also, just design with hideable anchors and you are good. just buid it out from the existing wall a foot or so and a foot or so back from the top.
|
|
|
|
| 03-19-2008 17:42:11 |
Member
Posts: 14
Joined: 03-19-2008
|
We have successfully accomplished these types of installations over old railroad tie retaining walls or any wooden walls. We take three additional steps.
1) Cover the entire wall with a vapor barrier. My preference is to use 30 lbs felt.
2) Cover the entire wall with a product called Delta Dry. This product is designed to be a stand alone vapor barrier. (I still use the tar paper as well) More importantly it is designed to allow for drainage and provide air flow, for the purpose of evaporation.
3) Cover the entire wall with 1” Styrofoam. When the wood expands the 1” Styrofoam sheets absorb the expansion and no stress is placed on the overlay material, also if the seams of the installed foam are taped, then you’ll have yet another vapor barrier layer.
I have no problem offering a five year guarantee on these types of installations.
I hope this helps.
Jim
|
|
|
|
| 03-19-2008 18:07:25 |
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: 02-27-2008
|
That's a nice looking retaining wall. You don't run into problems with your double or triple vapor barrier?
|
|
|
|
| 03-19-2008 18:16:19 |
Member
Posts: 14
Joined: 03-19-2008
|
THanks Eric.
I have not had any problems with that. I would think you might be thinking of the case of where you have a heated interior on a outside wall where the cold moist outside weather, which can cause a draw of a moisture/condenstation problem. The key is to have the draiage and evaporation aspects built into the design/installation.
Jim
|
|
|
|
| 03-19-2008 18:19:11 |
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: 02-27-2008
|
Yeah i am moving from the remodeling aspect of construction to decorative concrete. Sometimes its hard to forget what i have heard a million times over. But i guess outside would be a whole different ballgame. Good looking work.
|
|
|
|
| 03-20-2008 15:37:46 |
Member
Posts: 14
Joined: 03-19-2008
|
Thanks again Eric.
This job is located in your neck of the woods, just outside in twin cities in MN. It was installed in one our classes by the attending students, and led by one of senior instructors Steve Borg.
I wanted to address your comment about moving from the remodeling aspect of construction to decorative concrete. I agree fully. More specifically I would from my findings direct you into the faux rock sector of decorative concrete as it is the fastest growing sector of the decorative concrete industry, with regard to demand for installations, but yet with not as many skilled or qualified contractors to serve that demand. Don’t get me wrong we will still install stamped concrete and or overlays but only in conjunction with a rock feature (turnkey jobs). There still is a high and growing demand for stamped concrete and or overlays but there are tons of contractors scrapping for the work and daily more and more new contractors are coming aboard.
In addition to directing you into the faux rock sector, I would as well direct you to exclusively market and serve just the extremely wealthy customers in your market. One must learn to market and sell to fewer at a much high price. We are able to earn profit margins from $35.00 to $120.00 per sqft, At this point of my career I seem to only take jobs earning the $90.00 to $120.00 per sqft profit margins.
I would also speak to the winters that you and I go through where it is almost impossible to install during this time period. You need to get with all and any interior designers in your market and advice them of your abilities to install these types of features and get only the inside jobs. We are installing an inside job right now in the cliff rock style around three fire places. Up here in the Northwest the rainy season doesn't’t end until the end of April, so these types of installs are great for us.
Jim
|
|
|
|
| 03-20-2008 15:42:14 |
Member
Posts: 14
Joined: 03-19-2008
|
Don't know what happened when I added the last two photos to my post? That job with the tree ins't any thing to do with me! I only use real rock castings not hand carved or stamped stuff.
Jim
|
|
|
|
| 03-24-2008 11:18:20 |
Member
Posts: 169
Joined: --
|
When this happens, clear all your temporary internet files, cookies, etc, close the browser and then try again.
Host
|
|
|
|
