| update where did i go wrong??? |
| 04-14-2008 11:46:06 |
Member
Posts: 37
Joined: 02-08-2008
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i sprayed my colors.these are a acetone based dye from cps
i applied it at the 400 resin step.
what did i do wrong to get such a ugly dye pattern..
would this be the cause of not grinding enough in the 40s and 80metal stage??
don't worry this is just a test floor sample area but is still an upset.
any help would be great.
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| 04-14-2008 12:04:04 |
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Posts: 37
Joined: 02-08-2008
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reflection is nice but ugley colouring damn.
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| 04-14-2008 14:49:39 |
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Posts: 37
Joined: 02-08-2008
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well i taked to my cps rep sent him the same pictures
he said that i am working on a hard floor and thats why the dye wouldnt penertrate
he recomended to take it back town to my 80's and maybe apply the dye again at the 100-200 resin steps and go from there..
he had experenced the same theng and was due to a hard floor
what do you guys think?
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| 04-14-2008 15:19:34 |
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Posts: 54
Joined: 11-05-2007
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Kiwi
First thing I would ask is how old is the floor you are working on and plus what was used a a dust proofing product.
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| 04-14-2008 17:14:03 |
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Posts: 164
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It looks like the floor was densified before the floor was stained.
What grit did you start with, how fast did you walk and how many times did you go over the floor with your first grit?
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| 04-14-2008 17:28:25 |
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Posts: 37
Joined: 02-08-2008
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the floor is about 4years old.
what do you mean by dust proofing
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| 04-14-2008 17:32:24 |
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Posts: 37
Joined: 02-08-2008
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starting grit was 40metal
i was at about half walking speed i went over it once.
densifer was done after the 80metal stage as my rep said to do.
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| 04-14-2008 18:40:43 |
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Posts: 192
Joined: 07-14-2007
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Jim was right, you never densify before you add color. It will repel or inhibit the stain. The main goal / concern of staining is to eliminate any foreign materials in the floor that will hinder the stains penetration into the slab such as oils, sealers, etc.... giver another go. Good luck.
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| 04-14-2008 18:40:50 |
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Posts: 192
Joined: 07-14-2007
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Jim was right, you never densify before you add color. It will repel or inhibit the stain. The main goal / concern of staining is to eliminate any foreign materials in the floor that will hinder the stains penetration into the slab such as oils, sealers, etc.... giver another go. Good luck.
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| 04-14-2008 21:18:24 |
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Posts: 37
Joined: 02-08-2008
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wow learn something everyday and to be honest when i applied the dye it did look like it was getting repelled
do ya think if i take it back down to the 40s and do a thorougher grind i can eliminate the densifer from repelling and add another coat of densifier after the colour has been applied
any tips in this area should i just go with the origanl plan and go back to the 80's
damn reps musnt know shit lol
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| 04-15-2008 11:58:11 |
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Posts: 764
Joined: 05-20-2007
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These dumb ass reps either need to be fired, or not allowed to give any advice. You should here some of the things some of these HTC reps come up with. I really think all these guys have zero experience and just take a quick crash course and then are "qualified" to give out useless back assward advice.
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| 04-15-2008 15:16:07 |
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Posts: 164
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Re grind the floor with your 40's. When you "think" you have ground enough grind some more. When you "think" you have ground enough spray the place down with water. Watch to see how quickly it takes to soak in and see how quickly it dries. Any area that it soaks in slow and then dries fast go over that are with your 40's
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| 04-15-2008 18:59:02 |
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Posts: 37
Joined: 02-08-2008
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thanks Jim will do great advice as always
i would love to take your course but my boss isn't budging so its his loss and my head lol:)
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| 04-21-2008 17:27:12 |
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Posts: 37
Joined: 02-08-2008
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so i reground the area down with my 40s followed jims tips the water trick was a good idea.
the rep still clamied he was right lol
almost all the colour was removed except some spots
the floor is more uniform than before
do you guys think i should still apply the colour at a early stage like 200 or try again at 400?
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| 04-25-2008 17:44:45 |
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Posts: 37
Joined: 02-08-2008
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pics
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| 04-25-2008 17:49:05 |
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Posts: 37
Joined: 02-08-2008
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pic
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| 04-25-2008 19:51:26 |
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Posts: 764
Joined: 05-20-2007
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looks MUCH better
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| 04-25-2008 21:56:13 |
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Posts: 37
Joined: 02-08-2008
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now is this what dyed concrete usally looks like?
or would it had looked better if the densifier was applyied after.
thanks mc
i tryed my best this was the first time i had ever done this before.
cheers
chris
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| 05-05-2008 13:46:59 |
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Posts: 3
Joined: 02-27-2008
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Floor looks good. Glad to see the color took. In the future a few suggestions are.
-When densifying after 80G metal make sure to clean off the excess densifier and follow with a 150 G metal. Any of the excess densifier left topical on the surface will block the dye from penetrating into the pores of the concrete.
- You can also densify after the 400g resin and dye with a fine molecule like lithium, potassium, calcium type densifier.
- Also if you are dealing with a tight floor you can use AMEROPOLISH PENETRATING AGENT to slow the flash of the acetone to allow the dye to penetrate deeper.
-These tips where given to me by helpful HTC employees which have proven to work for me.
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| 05-07-2008 18:11:33 |
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Posts: 25
Joined: 05-07-2008
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Dear KIWI,
I figure out, the mix Design has been designed for pumping. It illustrate that your floor had Super-plasticize, < the product that contractors they add to the concrete mix to pump-up with ease>. If this is the case good luck!! , figure out that the slab well be integrally full with the residue of that junk.
Yes I did read your post and do read the replays, the acetone break down the polymer molecular that way you had little chance to color your floor and be careful it may not last
Because of the hydrostatic pressure. and silicate additives well not help to lack the color in the slab, that is wrong unless if you coat it and cross fingers.
I hope that well help.
Isa
Mexico
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| 05-07-2008 21:04:21 |
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Posts: 46
Joined: 08-10-2007
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I think you can slow the flash using xylene mixed with the acetone or isoprohyl alcohol without buying penetrating agent. Personally, for residential, I'm going to start using water based stains. The acetone is a total hassle, & not as predictable as they all say. So I think I can get same results using water based stains without smoking people out of their homes.
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| 05-08-2008 05:38:07 |
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Posts: 586
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We have done a lot of research on acetone dyes and how they work, I can only speak for ourselves and our product not for anyone else but here it is.
We did many side by side tests on the same surfaces with different formulations, we originally manufactured our dyes in an alcohol base but during our tests we were surprised to find that when made in an acetone base the dyes consistently (every time actually) penetrated significantly more than on alcohol, or water for that matter. We think it is because the acetone flashes so much faster than other solvents that the concrete absorbs it much quicker and deeper, after these tests we started making our dyes on acetone only.
Another thing we found out was that the more porous the concrete was the better the dye penetrated, this of course is a logical conclusion but though the dyes seem to go in up until 1500 grit, when used at 400 or so gave us the best results.
So based on our own tests on our own products I'd say that slowing down the solvent is not a good thing, that densifying before the dye is counterproductive and the dyes should be applied right about 400 , then densify then polish.
Art
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| 05-14-2008 20:35:28 |
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Posts: 37
Joined: 02-08-2008
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this does not have pump aid in it trust me i work for the concrete company and I'm also the pumper lol
the mix was 3500psi 5 1/2slump 1/2" rock
pour straight out of the back of the concrete truck
and hard troweled
with the second try i did. i crosshatched each step i Even did some steps twice this was in the metal stages from then on wards the resins were a piece of cake i did show some aggregate i guess i Parked a couple times lol
i got offered his main garage to polish its around 900sq ft
thanks for the answer guys appreciate it alot.
this time i will try by dyeing first and densify after.
one problem i came across was edging after dying the floor.
the edges came out different then the rest of the floor.
am i supposed to do all my edging to final grit before i do color?
what is the highest you go with the edge 800??
i have edge diamonds go from 50-400metal then 50-1500resins how do you guys tackle this also I'm using a metabo 5" variable speed edger all hands an d knees for me
cheers
kiwi
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