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FlexMar or other Polyurea?
Breezy	04-25-2008 08:29:33
Member Posts: 9 Joined: 08-15-2007	We would be grateful for your help. We are planning to use Smith Color Floor dye stain (old world series) & seal with FlexMar polyurea (PAP). Will we still need to first wet sand concrete to 80 grit with these products?...we have a tightly troweled smooth finish. Please email me if you know of any other brands of polyurea ...we still need to find a distributor for FlexMar here in the Pacific NW. We need a sealer that can withstand heat from a wood stove, is UV ray resistant (passive solar house) & tough enough to cope with the traffic of teens, animals, & mud!! Thanks again! bldgourhse@yahoo.com

usconc	04-25-2008 08:53:42
Member Posts: 803 Joined: --	again, this is probably not a job you want to do yourself. not if you want it to turn out right and to last. a good contractor will be able to look at your floor and assess what products would be best. you are going to have to roughen the texture of your floor no matter what product you use. if it's that smooth and dense, colorfloor is not a good choice. that product is a coating. an acid stain would be better. it is not a coating and thus can't peel or flake. colorfloor on a smooth floor like that would never last. dyes/acrylic stains like colorfloor are also subject to color fading over time from uv rays. acid stains are not. dyes/acrylic stains are used mostly to get specific colors that acid stains cannot. many contractors also use them because they are afraid to use acid stains. also, crosslinking coatings, such as polyureas, create tension on the floor. if the floor doesn't have a rough profile, the polyurea won't establish good adhesion and will eventually start flaking up due to the tension. furthermore, polyurea is overkill for a home. you don't need something that durable. polyureas are normally used in industrial applications. and they are extremely hard to fix if you ever have a problem. if i were you, i would lightly acid etch or sand the floor. then i would acid stain it. then i would put down a solvent acrylic sealer. this way your color will last, it won't flake up, and if you ever have problems with the sealer, it is easily fixed (spot repair) or recoated. if you are really that concerned about durability, then use a water-based epoxy from decosup and topcoat it with their water-based urethane for uv-resistance. and if you do decide to use colorfloor and flexmar, do not even consider doing it yourself. i know some people don't listen and think they can just do some research and follow the instructions, but i'm telling you now, this is not a diy project. maybe in a garage or small utility room. but not for the living area of a house.

Breezy	04-28-2008 13:55:06
Member Posts: 9 Joined: 08-15-2007	<> <> Thanky you, usconc. Is there a solvent acrylic sealer that is UV resistant & can withstand some radiant heat from a wood stove? Thank you.

Breezy	04-28-2008 14:01:17
Member Posts: 9 Joined: 08-15-2007	I should have said that we would prefer a satin or semi-gloss finish. Thanks!

Lindy A.	04-28-2008 14:04:17
Member Posts: 1776 Joined: --	Most acrylic sealers can only withstand random heat of 120F-140F maximum. Lindy A.

Breezy	04-29-2008 11:43:06
Member Posts: 9 Joined: 08-15-2007	Thank you, Lindy. So, that means we're back to the FlexMar or other polyurea...unless you know of any other sealer we could use that will meet our requirements? Thank you for your help! Can withstand radiant heat from a wood stove UV resistant (we've built a passive solar house) Tough enough for teen/animal traffic & mud!! (PNW/farm) Satin or semi-gloss finish *Tightly troweled, power smoothed concrete-to be sanded to 80 grit

charleseggers	05-01-2008 04:41:02
Member Posts: 29 Joined: 08-11-2007	We have used Citadell Polysapartics on stained floors where we used Smiths Paints Stains. I will warn you that it is a great coating, BUT....like Flexmar, it is VERY challenging to apply these coatings without having streaks, smears, rollermarks, build-ups, etc. The work times with polyaspartics are fickle, and if you are in a humid climate, the set times are even shorter. Make sure you do your homework if you want to use a polyaspartic for STAINED concrete. THe physcial properties of the polyaspartics are kick a**, but beware if you are using it for the first time. Also, I have heard that the flexmar product doesn't recommend using a primer and there are multiple failures at the 3-6 month window. Point being, use a PRIMER with poly's. Good luck, if you have any more questions, give me a PM.

Lindy A.	05-01-2008 08:34:33
Member Posts: 1776 Joined: --	Not all Polyaspartic Aliphatic Polyureas (PAP) require a primer; there are many time-tested/proven formulatuions, including Flexmars' that don't. It depends on the custom formulation and its physcial properties. Bond failure of any sealer/coating, including PAP's, are typically the result of one of the following... (1) Inadequate prep work that impeded the maximum mechanical/adhesive physical bond ... substrate must be free of laitance, efflorescence, oil, grease, fats, waxes, curing compounds, non-visible soluble salts, old coatings, residues from decorative stains, dust from concrete cutting/scoring/grinding or or other sources, or any other type of foreign matter. (2) Incompatiblity with the material it was applied over (be it a stain/dye or other type of sealer/coating). Never assume compatibility generically speaking ... CYA and test for yourself first. (3) Loss of bond 3-6 months down the road could also be to factors beyond the comprehension to foresee; such as long period of rain that result in ground/concrete slab saturation. This can cause temporary excess rising moisture/vapor (exceeding 3 lbs per 1000 sq.ft. national coatings industry standard); thereby, bringing about loss of physical bond of any type of sealer. (4) Profile of concrete, in relation to mechanical/penetrating bonding PAP's as well as other types/formulations of sealers, should have about an 80 grit feel ... if concrete is very smooth/dense (does not have an acceptible profile) at best all you are getting is an adhesive/topical bond. Of course, there are other factors and environmental conditions at time of application that can effect bonding; but it is not the result of manufacturer specific custom PAP formulations that chemcially engineered to do not need/require a primer. Lindy A.

usconc	05-01-2008 08:46:25
Member Posts: 803 Joined: --	this seems to have gotten lost somehow, but polyurea is not your only option. as i mentioned above, you can do water-based epoxy and urethane from decosup. they will both stand up to heat and they are much easier to apply. i would still the use the solvent acrylic - it's not going to simply melt and go away. and it's so easy to fix and maintain, which should be the biggest thing for a homeowner. another idea, if you were doing a tile pattern is that you could seal the square where the stove sits with epoxy and urethane. seal all the rest with acrylic. you shouldn't be able to notice any difference. but if you use polyurea, like the others said, you risk not getting a nice even finish because of the pot life, you make it extremely hard to fix if you have problems, and you have to worry about adhesion. epoxies have much better adhesion to concrete.

Lindy A.	05-01-2008 10:47:02
Member Posts: 1776 Joined: --	I agree that you could seal the immediate area under the stove (shielding it from radiant heat), as well as perhaps a couple of feet out from it, with a highly heat resistant polyurea ...using an alternate sealer having the same degree of sheen (100% solids/UV resistant epoxies and many aliphatic urethanes) on the rest of the floor. Of course you could also use the sealer of your choice, placing one of those fabricated heat shields made for stoves that you can purchase a Lowes, Home Depot, or fireside shops under the stove to shield the decorative concrete surface beneath it from radiant heat from the stove. Lindy A.

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