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So Cal Vertical
DatinDesigns	04-30-2008 21:48:15
Member Posts: 22 Joined: 04-30-2008	Hi everyone, I thought I would get involved and post some pics of some of my work.

DatinDesigns	04-30-2008 21:51:19
Member Posts: 22 Joined: 04-30-2008	A few more.

JPJTech	05-01-2008 09:00:20
Member Posts: 14 Joined: 03-19-2008	Jeff, It is good to see that you are well and kicking tail in the industry. Your work looks great with such diversity. I hadn’t heard or seen anything from you since you attended my class in 2004. Are you still working with Marshall Noriega? You guys will always stick out in my memory because you were so entertaining with your Jeff and Mutt routine. Hope all is well with all your endeavors in this wide world of synthetic rock. Jim Jenkins JPJ Technologies, Inc.

DatinDesigns	05-03-2008 10:26:36
Member Posts: 22 Joined: 04-30-2008	Hi Jim, Thanks for the compliment. I have been busy with teaching, building and consulting for quite some time now but I want to set the record straight, Jim, I didn't learn how to do this in your class. Everything I've learned has been on my own with a lot of trial and a little error since we all know that if you've got the artistic ability you can fix almost anything! I don't want to do you any disservice to your credentials but I was very disappointed in the class you gave us back in '04. Just my opinion. Marshall and I aren't in partnership anymore but we still talk about jobs and classes. I hope everything is good with you and your businesses and maybe we'll see each other at some faux rock expo or something.

JPJTech	05-05-2008 09:39:27
Member Posts: 14 Joined: 03-19-2008	Jeff, Thanks for your reply. I now have further documentation that you admit attending my class. You and Marshall came to my class and signed a Non Compete Agreement, but with no intentions of abiding in it, as you had just started California Rocks USA. I knew that you would say you didn’t like the class, and that you learned nothing from it. I have no problem with anyone starting a competing training course; I do have a problem with someone coming to me with the deceptive purpose of learning from me then competing against me. Why did you attend my class in the first place? It seems pretty underhanded to say the least. Thanks again, Jim

dcs inc	05-06-2008 13:43:19
Member Posts: 190 Joined: --	Let me get this straight. You train people to install and have them sign a no compete clause? Why teach then? gene

taj	05-06-2008 14:17:52
Member Posts: 28 Joined: 11-20-2006	Nice work Datin. Yes that is a puzzle, so, you train people Not to work. But it is very rewarding to share what you have learned. Tajmawall

taj	05-06-2008 14:25:52
Member Posts: 28 Joined: 11-20-2006	Check out my cooler http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDa5ckSG8jA

JPJTech	05-06-2008 16:45:48
Member Posts: 14 Joined: 03-19-2008	Wayne and Gene, I think you might have misunderstood the problem. We don’t want to stop people from working once they have learned to technology, we just don’t want them to start a competing training company that offers our technology for sale in the form of classes, DVD’s or books. This is a very common practice in the industry. In the case of Jeff Datin and Marshall Noriega they came to my class knowing they were going to train people for cash. They signed non compete agreement saying they wouldn’t compete in the industry. This is the problem in a nut shell. I don’t mind someone starting a competing company just don’t come to me for your training. Jim

dcs inc	05-06-2008 17:43:08
Member Posts: 190 Joined: --	I don't want to get into the middle of this because I really don't care. I just don't see how you feel his work is some how related to yours. All I have seen of your work is a composite panel constrution that you screw to a wall. His work looks more of out of the bag mix. Am I missing something here? Gene (still confused) dean

JPJTech	05-06-2008 17:55:09
Member Posts: 14 Joined: 03-19-2008	Gene, I have four synthetic rock companies. The one that we are discussing here is JPJ Tech, in which we give you all the technology/ formulas to do the bag mix techniques. Where the company you spoke of is Synthetic Rock Solutions (SRS). in SRS we manufacture all kinds of rock and stone panels that are between 1/4 to 1/2 inches in thickness and can be used to create any rock or stone feature that you could image. We do not have the students that we train in SRS classes sign any non compete agreements, because these formulas are not given to them they just buy our products. in JPJ we don't sell product, just the technology/ formulas thus the need for the non compete agreements. Jim

DatinDesigns	05-06-2008 22:14:43
Member Posts: 22 Joined: 04-30-2008	Hi again Jim, Yes I did sign a non compete but we were already teaching and we were 1200 miles away and the only audience we had was local within a 100 miles or less! If it was such a problem why didn't you kick us out of class?? I have had numerous contractors that already do the same work I do such as building artificial rock come to my class an I teach them gladly. I take it as a compliment when someone sees my work and wants to copy me. To me, there's a lot of gratification in teaching something to others that you have a passion for and not just out to make a buck. Granted we're in this business to make money but there’s only a handful of concrete artists out there compared to the tens of thousands of people that will or would love to learn how. I think that if anyone is interested and really wants to learn this craft they should take multiple classes to be more knowledgeable, learn different styles and techniques and to gain an edge over there competition. You can't ever learn enough and I just might show up in some other guys’ classes just to learn that much more. I would think they would be happy to have a fellow artist in their class. Heck if another artist came to my class I would put them to work and let them show the class a few of their tips and tricks. (note to self: good idea!) If it's any consolation, I didn’t go to your class to steal your formulas and methods, most of the things you had shown us I had already done in the 6 years of trial and error prior to 2004. I actually thought that since you were the guy everyone goes to learn this stuff then maybe we could put something together as a So Cal extension of your classes. Of coarse I wanted to see your operation and how well your classes were structured, I wouldn't get involved if I didn't approve. It's unfortunate you have so much animosity towards us after all this time. I hope you can put this aside and join the rest of us and make this art form as big as it has the potential to be. Thanks again, Jeff Datin

DatinDesigns	05-06-2008 22:19:32
Member Posts: 22 Joined: 04-30-2008	Thanks for the complement Taj. I might get a hold of you to try your flex mix. Its been a while since I tried it. Thanks again, Jeff

dcs inc	05-07-2008 10:19:08
Member Posts: 190 Joined: --	Ok, Still doesn't set well with my teachings. Of course, I sell product so thats the difference. Why would some one come to class to learn this and sign a no compete clause???? I guess if they want to diy it. I don't understand your training philosophy. Maybe it's to pull in clients for you to install. If thats the case, I wouldn't call it a training seminar. I would like to learn this but believe me, I would be putting it to use. Most likely adapting it to my products. No competes are eye candy. Very tough and expensive to uphold. Good luck in your endeavors. I like your work. gene

JPJTech	05-07-2008 11:10:26
Member Posts: 14 Joined: 03-19-2008	Jeff, You signed the non compete agreement on the morning of the first day of the class, if you knew that you were not going to abide in the agreement, you should have not signed it. At that time you should have spoke up and told me that you were already training people. I would have had no problem with that and I would have refunded you money and you’d be asked to leave. I didn’t find out your intentions until after you were gone and I read the questionnaire that we ask our students to fill out at the end of the class. On your questionnaire, you put down your CA rocks website and that’s when I found out you were training people. Why put down your website? The questionnaire didn’t ask you to do so; you were just being rude with your “I got one over on you” routine. Bottom line is you are not honest with your intentions, and your signature on an agreement means nothing. I am very sure that you will have great success with your mode of operations, as it will come back to bite you. Gene, We only have one in five hundred people that we train, who want to copy our training program to train people in this industry for money. They are not here to learn to install but to recreate our program, as Jeff and Marshall did, to competing against us. The rest just want to do installations which we have no problem with, they are not competing by training people for money like we do. Jim

dcs inc	05-07-2008 13:39:44
Member Posts: 190 Joined: --	OK, I got it now. Was a little fuzzy on this. gene

DatinDesigns	05-07-2008 22:04:23
Member Posts: 22 Joined: 04-30-2008	Wow! OK I tried to be civil about this but No! Marshall stopped you in the middle of the class and told you that we were already teaching a class. Get your facts straight before your accusations. I still don't get it after 4 years your so all over this. Do you want me to tell everyone what your class was like and what I learned? Didn't you read anything in my last reply??? Does anyone understand where I'm coming from? Is there something else? Please let me know! Thanks, Jeff

JPJTech	05-08-2008 10:30:07
Member Posts: 14 Joined: 03-19-2008	Jeff, If you or Marshall would have told me at any time during the class, that you were training people synthetic rock techniques, I would have refunded your money and asked you to leave at once, that is and always has been my policy. That didn’t happen! Fact! My pursuit at the time of your showing up here was simply to have you admit your trespass and apologize and then I’d be happy. That didn’t happen. All you did in your defense was say: Yes I did sign a non compete but we were already teaching and we were 1200 miles away and the only audience we had was local within a 100 miles or less!” This is the reason you give to justify your lack of ethics in keeping to your word. Does not your signature on an agreement mean anything? I did not in the past pursue my options of going to the courts for a cease and desist order against you guys, because I didn’t think you guys would amount to any real competition, which is still my belief today. At the same time I am seeing you and Marshall are somewhat now more active in training people, and I still maintain an active agreement with you, I may now choose to pursue relief from any more competition from you and file a civil suit against you guys seeking damages. I do have the resources to fight this case, and I am tired of the past and current slap in my face. I have a great working relationship with all of the other attendee’s of the class you attended and I am sure I can get them to document my position. I also have you guys here on video, and I have your signatures on the non compete agreements in my pocket. Do you really want to play games with me? The choice is yours. Admit and Apologize or let’s play a game of Hard Ball. Best regards, Jim

JPJTech	05-08-2008 12:27:54
Member Posts: 14 Joined: 03-19-2008	Jeff, I don’t need you to admit what you have done is wrong as you already have already provided that testimony in your posts on this thread. It would be nice to see some sort of an apology, and then I could put this behind me, and wish you God Blessings in all of your future endeavors. Best regards, Jim

DatinDesigns	05-08-2008 19:13:22
Member Posts: 22 Joined: 04-30-2008	Hey Jim if thats all you want then I'm sorry. Truly sorry, but I can't speak for Marshall. Jeff

DatinDesigns	05-08-2008 19:16:21
Member Posts: 22 Joined: 04-30-2008	Jim, I do need you to know that Marshall did tell you in class and your non compete clause was for 2 years. Jeff

JPJTech	05-09-2008 09:27:37
Member Posts: 14 Joined: 03-19-2008	Jeff, Thanks for the apology. I know that you can't speak for Marshall, but I'll be making some waves for him next week, for sure. Not to push back, I am looking at the two agreements right now, and they are five year agreements. No problems , you can freely go forth and kick some tail. This matter is now behind us. I truly wish you God Blessings in all of your future endeavors, and as a signature of my forgiveness and sincerity I would like to invite you to attend for free, my last advanced three day hands on class, which is being held here in Oregon on June 18, 19, 20. This is not a JPJ class it is my newest techniques being taught through our SRS Company. I say my last class because I no longer have to option to teach, as our companies are growing like a wild fire. We now have 21 locations across the world where the classes are being held monthly. I really need to focus on furthering our companies’ growth. Thanks again, and I sincerely hope all is well for you in OUR Wide World of Synthetic Rock. Sincerely Jim

solid-art	05-13-2008 18:58:21
Member Posts: 29 Joined: 03-20-2008	Wow! That was the best I ever read. I understand both sides. I also like to teach, however I make concrete countertops and I have as of yet never had anyone not share secrets. Sharing ideas help the ideas turn into even better ideas. It seems as though you two have worked things out and if you ever need help with anything in my field just ask. Paul

DatinDesigns	05-13-2008 21:59:34
Member Posts: 22 Joined: 04-30-2008	Thanks Paul, Now that's creative! I've done some counter-tops but I haven't had the chance to get too creative with any yet. Those are some wild back splashes. Do you carve a form first then cast it or is this hand carved? It looks like you use individually placed colored concrete to get the sharp color edges. Nice to see some more pics. Really cool idea and great work! Jeff

solid-art	05-14-2008 18:06:10
Member Posts: 29 Joined: 03-20-2008	I just finished writing a whole page and when I sent it, it disappeared! I don't have anymore time tonight so I will respond tomorrow. Paul

KSR	06-11-2008 17:45:26
Member Posts: 8 Joined: 02-29-2008	What does all this shit have to do with vertical concrete ? You're wasting everyone's time and perverting the purpose of this forum with your ego. If you're half the professionals you pretend to be, you'd follow an example like Sellon's and avoid altogether.........

DatinDesigns	06-12-2008 23:06:00
Member Posts: 22 Joined: 04-30-2008	Hey KSR, your about a month late. We tossed all that %$#^% . I don't pretend. Look at my work. And you mistaked my "ego" for an honest person protecting his rights. Jeff

solid-art	06-13-2008 16:15:08
Member Posts: 29 Joined: 03-20-2008	Jeff, I carved a mold from foam and pressed in individual batches of concrete. But I really need to learn to use overlay material I think it will be more versatile.

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