| Flipping over a massive piece |
| 05-04-2008 14:32:41 |
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Joined: 02-04-2007
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I contemplated for several weeks about wanting to pour this in one piece or not. I know the several risks of attempting this. I saw Stone Soup do this at 1700 lbs., so why couldn't I do this at 500 lbs. Worst case scenario, I have to do this all over again. My question, any advice on flipping this thing over? I'm willing to build, buy, ect....whatever to make this happen? 2'x9'x2". Any ideas guys?
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| 05-04-2008 19:04:39 |
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Posts: 29
Joined: 03-20-2008
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You will probably get several opinions and this is mine...
Split it at the sink at an angle or make it into four pieces, one for each side and one at the faucet and one in the front. Buddy Rhodes makes a nice countertop using this method. Granite installers use a sink saver dew hickey, some rails that clamp on the edge preventing the inevitable twist. 2x2 angle iron can work.
Paul
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| 05-04-2008 20:42:56 |
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Like Solid said use a strong back at all times and you have a great chance.
I have used tube steel and straps and I leave the straps on till on cabinet's then pull them out or cut them. The only time I use strong backs is if I have a long 10' or more pc with a long return,up to 5' and integral sink etc.
This pc you have if it were in GFRC it could be stripped in less than 24hrs and carried flat with no strong back.
If you were using GFRC you wouldn't be having any of these issues, no steel reinforcement no screwing down forms no worries structurally and only 9lbs per sqft at 1" thick.
www.urbanconcretedesign.com
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| 05-05-2008 17:47:47 |
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or you can forget all of that and pour in place :)
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| 05-05-2008 20:39:47 |
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Been doing some pour in place ,and it looks like poured in place , the clients loved them , in my market its more modern trends than old world look.
Each has its pros and cons.
Precast is a much more refined look and that is whats selling here.
I know its hard for some to except different things that they don't understand like GFRC, that's why I have been teaching the more progressive minded concrete artisans.
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| 05-06-2008 05:23:49 |
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what does gfrc stand for?
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| 05-06-2008 18:53:43 |
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Glass Fiber Reinforced Concrete
And no its not simply putting fibers in the mix.
AR glass is used not poly.
Poly is for crack control where as AR glass is the load bearing unit, and the matrix of cement is the load transfer unit between the fibers.
No steel is used in GFRC.
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| 05-08-2008 16:43:45 |
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I use nothing but GFRC with Alkali-resistant glass fiiber and glass scrim. I don't understand why people keep saying that you don't need steel with GFRC. The countertop shown above will crack around the cutout when it is flipped or moved unless heavily re-enforced with steel along those thin edges. The steel being used above is not adequate. It may prevent shrinkage cracks but will not handle the stress that will be caused by the large heavy ends when it is moved. Angle iron and thick rebar should be used down the length of the edges of the top shown above to handle the load. Even when using GFRC you need structural support. Also, keep in mind that rebar bends, angle iron is much stronger with less flex.
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| 05-09-2008 04:04:42 |
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Posts: 40
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Wouldn't angle iron, rebar, ect.....take away from GFRC properties of being "light weight". I do like the idea of 9 lbs. a square foot though!
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| 05-09-2008 04:53:18 |
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Missouri where are you located, I am in Olathe KS. I have a top in the back of my truck right now that is shaped like the form in the picture. It was done with GFRC and rebar and still has four cracks on each side of the cutout. I am re-doing it. I am installing angle iron on each edge with 8ft lengths of rebar, also going to run 3 8ft pieces of rebar through the cutout for support while I am finishing it, transporting and installing , after installation the rebar in the cutout will be cut with a hack saw on my sawzall. If you have a once piece slab with uniform widths and no large cutouts then I agree you don't need rebar or steel mesh when using GFRC.
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| 05-09-2008 04:57:07 |
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I see your way down south of St. Louis, long way from KC.
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| 05-09-2008 16:08:44 |
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I have been doing gfrc for 20+ yrs and never used rebar.
Look at my web page and none has rebar.
I could guarantee 100% that if the pc above was cast using my GFRC and no rebar it would not crack period.
Cybrd what polymer are you using?
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| 05-15-2008 04:39:46 |
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Lightweight? GFRC is more like 11lbs per sq. ft. at 1 inch thickness. That piece above looks like it will be 2 inches thick. It's a heavy SOB. $10 worth of rebar or angle iron is cheap insurance around that cutout.
GFRC recipe:
9.4lbs cement
8.4lbs sand
2.7lbs water
1.0lbs polymer curing additive
0.65lbs Alkali resistant glass fiber
6.0 Oz.(liquid) Rheobuild 1000 (Superplasticizer).
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| 05-15-2008 07:12:22 |
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What does the polymer do?
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| 05-15-2008 07:29:55 |
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CORRECTION TO GFRC MIX.
The 6 liquid oz. of Rheobuild 1000 is for 94 lbs of cement. For the small amount above I use 1 to 1 1/2 tablespoons of plasticizer. Also, GFRC must be mixed with a high speed mixer (drill), and always add the plasticizer last.
The polymer when added to GFRC mixes at the recommended level, does not change the hydration process of Portland cement. It’s function is to reduce permeability during the first few hours of cure, first on the surface by forming a sealing film and then within the composite. This reduced permeability in the composite significantly lessens the loss of water by evaporation, facilitating the full hydration and cure of the Portland cement. Excessive loss of water during curing, to such an extent that there’s not sufficient water remaining to fully hydrate the Portland cement, will result in low cement and composite strengths. Further, there are no remedial procedures that will retrieve the composite strengths if the initial cure is not done correctly.
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| 05-21-2008 09:15:44 |
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Posts: 28
Joined: 01-27-2007
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If it isn't an undermount sink and you don't have to worry about the cuttout edge you can form up the sink area with cross (+) supports without rebar and then cut them out of the sink area after installation.
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| 06-08-2008 23:25:38 |
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Joined: 12-15-2006
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"calypso".... I'm curoius as to why your counter has four cracks in it ?. Was this the same mix your recommending for GFRC ?.
"Desert Dog"... is this mix calypso is recommending similar to your mix ?. I know you sell classes etc but comparatively why is calyso's counters cracking with rebar. Is there an obvious devation here ?. Also what's your opinion of the CDROM video by GORE out now that teaches GFRC... didn't you teach them originaly ?.
Steven
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| 06-09-2008 15:22:23 |
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Yea I taught Gore a few years ago. Long story short, He didn't want anything to do with GFRC till he saw what I was doing with it, see touch feel believe.
The video he thinks is his way to cut Chang's throat etc.
DVDs are OK but my class will save you $ in the long run.
People didn't listen to me at first when I told them that GFRC was the leading edge of ctops, now every ones jumping on.
on the DVD it will look easier than it is ,trust me.
But you get much more out of my classes than mix design and application.
Such as why rebar cracks GFRC etc.
Also you get some real insight into mold design and high run production, this is where I have a great deal of experience after managing a $5mil precast plant.
Plus there is much needed post training support which I provide via phone and on-line forum.
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| 06-09-2008 23:37:51 |
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Mr Desertdog,
What do you recommend for someone UNABLE to attend your course - trust me I'd prefer that to a dvd or book - problem is I'm in Australia!
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| 06-15-2008 19:03:49 |
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Gores DVD will be the best bet if you cant attend a class, hands down.
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| 06-15-2008 19:36:30 |
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Posts: 24
Joined: 04-17-2008
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Thanks, D.Dog
Already ordered.
When's yours coming out? :-}
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